Anonymous. If for some reason you do go off the normal beats you must have done it by design and not ignorance, Therefore you would know and have the technique to come back into the correct rhythm at the end of that particular move. But there is no forgiving encouraging dancers to start off on a Feather Step on the man's RF on any other beats other than 1 2 followed by 3 4. Leaving 1 2 for the first of your Reverse movement. Surely you must agree with that. And having agreed you will be dancing on Time in Rhythm and ultimately in Phrase.
For those new to this. Quoting John Wood. In a book we have eight pages to a chapter. Think of each page as one bar of music. Then eight of them completes one chapter. That is called eight bar phrasing which is how dance music, or music we can dance to is phrased. Usually there are 8 chapters on a disk or if you like 64 bars of music.Which have a distinct audible sound on the first bar of every eight.
This is not something new. Even Elvis all those years ago sung to eight bar phrased music.

"If for some reason you do go off the normal beats you must have done it by design and not ignorance, Therefore you would know and have the technique to come back into the correct rhythm at the end of that particular move."

Not necessarily at the end of the move, but at whatever point you decide you want to go back to the 'usual' feel.

For example, you might explore this alternative musical character in the middle of a phrase, but you probably want to line things up again by the end.

If the dancer gets 'lost' in the music such that their idea of the music is determined by what their own feet are doing rather than by what the band is doing - well, that's a dancer who doesn't yet have the skill to attempt anything but the ordinary, obvious relationship of steps to music. And there's no shame in sticking to the ordinary - but it's not the end of the line as far as possibilities for development.

Anonymous. You struck on a good point there. I blame the teachers for most of this. Far to many variations. If you see a Demonstration it is a show. The demonstrators in a competition will not do half of what the do in a show. If you can find your way to Timothy Howson in the 06 Foxtrot final at Blackpool. The camera stays with him for thirteen bars of music all through side one and two and three before it leaves. All he does is a Feather Step. Reverse Turn. Three Step. Feather Step and into a Reverse Wave. We in the meantime would have thrown everything but the kitchen sink into those thirteen bars. The key word is KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid.

Serendipidy,

Is this the video that you mean?

2006 UK Professional Finals 2-2

jj

Hi serendipity
I must take issue with something you said about 'blaming teachers' for too many variations...
If you look at the link put up by jj (i'm not sure this is the comp you were referring to) you will see these top guys adapting and improvising to avoid others, and to keep a clear space for themselves.
You only get good at this by working through and developing a wide range of figures and movements. Doesn't mean you have to use these in every comp.
It's the very same with learning to play a musical instrument - you learn with a wide range of musical types - classical, jazz, Scott joplin - the whole lot. That develops skills.
i'm sure you've experienced the fact that the more you learn, the more quickly you can learn new things.
Even at my level, we have a fairly good repertoire at foxtrot, and most of it i don't use in comps, but when we're in trouble i can (on a good day ) find something from somewhere without thinking about it.
Actually i don't have this in tango, and i suffer for it.

Phil . A skilled seasoned competitor will not do that much in the 64 bars of music. They will repeat. I have put this on before. I have a tape of William Pino in an early round at Blackpool. The camera stays with him and in 12 bars of Waltz does the same group three times. The rest of us think we have to do every move there is. All in one minute thirty. The one that I mentioned last week on the crowded floor can be seen by going to Superior Ballroom . Events scrapbook and there are two to look at. If you are quick you will notice Timothy Howson take a bit of a near collision.
A good one on Foxtrot to watch is Luca and Lorain's Slow Foxtrot Demo. Its the one on a Vinal squares floor. Check the alignments from corner to corner . You will find they are spot on.

Hi Serendipity
I think you just reinforced what i said earlier. Yes, they don't do much, but they can if they have to.
Pino almost certainly realised that in the early rounds he only had to stand up and look good.

"Phil . A skilled seasoned competitor will not do that much in the 64 bars of music. They will repeat. I have put this on before. I have a tape of William Pino in an early round at Blackpool. The camera stays with him and in 12 bars of Waltz does the same group three times. The rest of us think we have to do every move there is."

I had this discussion with one of my coaches recently. I pointed out that I'd much rather do a classic characteristic foxtrot sequence like the big boys do on their videos, instead of our more syncopated first wall.

He pointed out that we don't dance it sublimely enough to win that way. I may not like our opening as it seems like avoiding the ultimate challenge of the transparent figures, but as the coach pointed out, it's exciting and it moves a lot.

And that's why you see a lot of the choreography you do in the middle ranks of competition. Beginners and masters can compete basics. Those in between should work on them, but realistically they may not be the best show they can put on in a competition.

Maybe we should have more high level restricted figures events to promote such mastery?

Phil.f you can find your way to Luca where he is dancing to a Japanese Tune on a squared vinal floor. What do you think of the content of his sixteen bar routine. Do you think it was enough. Was he maybe sending a message that you don't need all ; as well as the kitchen sink. There was no Fallaways or Tumble Turns. Not even a Double Reverse . But was it good or wasn't it. You might like to watch his Waltz from the same venue.

It depends on the audience he was catering to. ( Of which I know not ) ,

but as a rule of thumb, any good pro. will design his presentation to suit the occasion .